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New Slavery

February 28, 2007

These are the dynamics of the police organisation an d how they deal with Black people that challenge. Indeed perhaps anyone that challenges! None of this can be imagined but it’s absoulutely true. This has happened to a colleague just yesterday. BLACK PEOPLE SELLING BLACK PEOPLE – new slavery I call it!
  1. Thr organisation must isolate the Black person that challenges totally.
  2. If this person writes to the organisation and you are a Chief Officer, even if the organisation is to blame, blame that Black person first! Then circulate your response about blaming them to the Senior Team so that everyone knows that the person that has challenged is not a safe pair of hands.
  3. Do not expect anyone from the Senior Team to stand against anyone else from the Senior team. As a manager, be happy that the team is with you. Therefore isolate the Black person further

  4. Then in the memo that you as the Chief Officer write to the Black person invite the person that challenged up for a coffee, after you have criticised them of course.
  5. Take no responsibility as a SMT at all for organisational faults.
  6. In the meantime as an organisation identify other Black colleagues to mentor from a Senior perspective. It matters not that these persons might themselves have practised racism or whether they are truly incompetent in race. It matters not that the whole community know just how incompetent these people are. These Officers are known by the Twining term Sell outs.
  7. If you are the person that challenges, get ready for a fight. As a manager from SMT when the fight happens bring on those mentioned in point 6 above to say actually nothing is wrong, thereby causing confusion. God help us! You could not make this up……

British National Party member said…

Actually, Africans were the first to have slaves. When we went to the continent, we just did what the Muslims were already doing; we bought the black slaves off the black owners.

Black in Blue said…

Your welcome here as long as you keep racism away. Irrespective of what the African people were doing in THEIR own country, we, the West, economically then abused them. Maybe there was an economic argument, but to then set in scientific theories of supremacy that Black people were inferior was RACISM. I am afraid you cannot justify economic aims and racism TODAY. Anyway, this is about now. The colonials are still doing the same INSIDE THE POLICE. Yep and we are buying Black people now, AND THESE ARE OFFICERS.

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26 comments

  1. Serendib are you going to enlighten us? How many people has this sort of thing happened to?


  2. Actually my BNP friend, I have to totally agree with you. Slavery was first the product of Afrika!

    You clearly acknowledge that the Afrikan nations were ‘civilised’ and had developed beyond an agrarian society prior to Europe. Modern historians are starting to rewrite history to reflect a less ethnocentric nature by acknowledging that the cradle of civilisation as we know it predates the Blonde, Blue eyed Greeks (these characteristics seem to have been watered down over time or perhaps they were a Western European addition?) and are now looking at Afrikan history which strangely does not include Europeans until Alexander the Great and subsequently the Ptolemy dynasty of which Cleopatra was an ancestor. Ancient Egyptian history predates all this by many millennia.

    Are you sure that you are not someone pretending to be from the extreme Right when in fact you are a fellow traveller on a middle road just acting as an ‘agent provocateur’?

    Before anyone jumps on the ‘Islamophobia’ bandwagon with regard to Slavery, Islam itself does not support racialised enslavement as did the Europeans develop when first started enslaving Afrikans in the sixteenth century and then post 1807 started using the term ‘Indentured Workers’ in Asia, when it became economically unviable to continue the Afrikan trade. Islamic countries as earlier civilisation have done saw slavery as the spoils of war. Let’s also remember that by 1807 (of course slavery was not actually got rid of until 1833) Britain was starting to overtake their rivals France, Germany and others and it became economically expedient to support the abolition of such a heinous trade. A further interesting fact is that many of those peoples enslaved by the Europeans were in fact followers of Islam themselves as was large tracks of West Afrikan and the coastal regions of East Afrika.

    Unfortunately there is a mass of written historical documents (and note that I do not say evidence) that ‘Blames’ Islam for slavery as if this made the act alright for the Europeans to follow. Strangle this history has been written by or on behalf of the Europeans.

    If the truth be know there are few either presently developed or past developed countries that have not used either slavery or indenture to progress economically, but again the racialisation of slavery is purely a European development.

    Whatever has happened in history though it is something that has happened and cannot be changed, but what can change is the acknowledgement of the European countries that their present economic prosperity was built with ‘Black’ and Asian hands and this machinery has been lubricated with their blood (emotive language, but it seems fit for purpose at this time).

    Guilt of ones history is not a healthy thing, but it is all to present within Britain and holds back genuinely moving forward. Acknowledgment of history is the healthy approach as my BNP friend you have alluded to. Let’s hope that more and more people challenge what they have been taught and let’s hope that our future youth are allowed to read history from a non-judgemental and jingoistic perspective.

    We in the UK are many years behind the United States of America on the issues of slavery. There many Black people have become further empowered by understanding their ancestry even though it was from slavery; some like members of the Nation of Islam then discard their slave surname and have adopted Afikan and Islamic names which are more appropriate. I see nothing wrong with this, for we are all greater surely that the name that we are branded with upon birth?

    I will conclude not, so that this remains a small thesis, but am happy to develop this further should anyone wish?


  3. Heh!

    When Europeans talk of civilised behaviour there is an image fixed in ones mind which does not accord with a general ordering his a platoon of troops to march over high cliffs to their death, and the troops unquestionably obeying in rank and file to avoid the worse fate that would await them had they hesitated, just to impress the visiting white man.

    This is what greeted us throughout large chunks of Africa under Shaka. We wanted no hostilities and sent for peace so he invited a delegation of our people into his camp. They left their weapons at the “gate”, feasted through the night, and were then butchered. So began the war which we won in Africa and spawned the film “Zulu dawn”

    Its true that blacks sold blacks as a “good”, but that does not require a factory. If two groups of people are fighting and one wins, if the winners sell the losers it does not change what the winners do when they are not fighting. I should imagine that little was produced in quantity by Africans before the arrival of Europeans other than the necessities, but i am not a historian. However Africa and Arabia are places of the deepest tribalism which is not a solid basis for large co-operational and wealthy societies (which is one of the reasons i am being forced to re think my position on the Iraq war)

    The BNP made a couple of articles about Egypt, how throughout our history we had portrayed the rulers as white after the manner of the Romans, where as in recent years there has been a pronounced tendency to widen the noses, darken the skin and so on. The articles referred to skull dimensions and some such to re-affirm what we always taught which i didn’t check, but a politically correct bending of history is par for the course with todays the ministry of truth, and im minded to take as fact what we always did on that account.

    As to how extreme i am, in historical terms, even say in terms of the past couple of hundred years of British history, i incredulously claim to be a moderate and a liberal, certainly a libertarian. What i am by ‘here today gone tomorrow’ standards is not for me to measure. What we should strive to do is to be right by standards which are absolute and timeless.

    Re; Islam and slavery. The facts are that Islam took many slaves both before us and after us and that they treated them with abject cruelty from the top of society down. Further, they took white slaves from places as far afield as Cornwall, and you should think me mad if i expected them to go walking up and down Turkey in chains despite the fact that the British lead expeditions to places such as Algiers to end the Christian slave trade 50 years after after the owning of slaves in Britain was made illegal in 1772 and lastly on this subject it was not just a question of us stopping France, but of Great Britain, France and Russia stopping the Ottoman Empire.

    But saying all that i do not wish to lay the blame for the slaves we bought on Islam, just to point out that they may well have taken more than us, including British people, and that they probably treated them worse.

    If our prosperity was built soley with slaves, but muslims also took slaves, why are they not as prosperous? Slaves were profitable which is why we took them but to say that without them we would have been nothing is false. Just like any other commodity they helped but it is emotive and just that to claim they were the bedrock of our Greatness.

    But all talk of past greatness aside, i need to take the dog round the block before we go out for the day! *tips hat.

    Gareth.


  4. Are you justifying the use of Black people today? Are you saying that this does not happen? And that institutions do not use the “token” Black person?


  5. BIB asked, in order;

    “Are you justifying the use of Black people today?”

    Against their will? No. Why did you ask and what prompted the question? Im a big believer in the individual retaining sovereign rights over his or her own body.

    Are you saying that this does not happen?

    Well its a big world, so i assume you mean in Britain? Used with the meaning you put forward with regards to Rajinder Singh presenting our election video, (though I dispute he was used) yes. But used against their will under threat of violence? I shouldn’t think so. But why did that question spring from my post?

    And that institutions do not use the “token” Black person?

    Oh God yes, i hate it. Do you know when i was at school i was appalled by racism. Now however i would try to avoid a black doctor for my family. Not because he is black per-se but mainly because he could have got there through affirmative action – which is explicit discrimination against the natives in favour of immigrants or the descendants thereof who couldn’t otherwise have got their through their own merits.. If it wasn’t for affirmative action i wouldn’t mind being seen by a black doctor born and educated over here at all. And so it goes on, im sure in the police sometimes it matters more if your face fits than anything else, which must be infuriating.


  6. If the user is more intelligent let’s say, or crafty or cunning and has an agenda, an improper agenda, then there are many ways to get a Black person to allow themselves to be used.

    Violence does not have to be used to use a Black person. Promises of some personal gain, promotion, backing, etc. are common themes of using people.

    Then the Black person says what the racist or Instiutional leader wants them to say. This is mis-use. The question is one uses and the other allows themselves to be used.

    You see, noth the Leader and the Black person being used benefit, but the majority lose!


  7. That sounds to me a female way of behaving, manipulative and devious. It doesn’t seem race related as such though.. it sounds like the person using wants to get ahead, and the used guy fell for it or had low morals and didn’t care so long as he gets something out of it.

    I don’t think that it equates as a modern form of slavery, but a modern form of corruption.


  8. Interesting comments BNP member, Wasn’t slavery a form of corrupting another culture for personal gain? This has everything to do with Race? And yes it is corruption. It has everything to do with race because the commodity that is being bought in the case of the police organisation are token Black people. How on earth do you know that the Black Doctor you go to see has got through because of affirmative action? There is a shortage of Doctor’s in the NHS. Some have qualified in India and have to requalify here. That is why there are so many minority ethnic Doctor’s in the NHS that have travelled from India, etc. The NHS is in dire straits. Can I say that? The minority community is currently propping up the NHS but look at the lower order of porters, and where I look in London in most hospitals, most at the lower end are Black African and they go about their job with a smile on their face. Look at the cleaners as you awake in London. The majority are Black African Caribbean. Just open your eyes.


  9. Serendib, in your exeprience in your career, how many Black officer’s that you know have sold out other Black officer’s for some gain, not finaancial of course?


  10. Well you know the situation of course while i can only go off what i read. While it may well be about token blacks – which is at least nominally racist – if the aim of it all is personal gain or anything other than specifically harming or helping someone or some people because they are black, its primary motive does not strike me as racism.

    I don’t know who has been through affirmative action policies and That’s the trouble. Well allow me to correct that; I know that if someone is English they haunt. My point is that if the same standards had to be met by all the only motives for not going to a black doctor would be, as you said in pc copperfields blog – ugly and unsatisfying.

    As it is i would be taking unnecessary risks if i didn’t aim to get an English doctor for my family. Not because he is white par-se but because he is more likely to be deserving of his qualifications, not something that could be said 40 years ago when blacks arguably had to work a lot harder to get to the same job as an Englishman.

    What about that ethnic policeman who is writing a book slagging off the met? he is going for promotion and might get it. He is playing the race card. While just because someone is black it certainly doesn’t *mean* they are less qualified then a white counterpart, it does leave open the possibility.

    Government policy has made it so.


  11. Woah woah – before you drum up any suggestion that the token Black is a racist term – I apply common sense here, Black includes Asian, it includes anyone that has a common experience of racism and when I say these colleagues get used and allow themselves to be used, the one’s I have seen are incompetent yet they get the backing. Ask the Black community, they can pick out these people too. Now, why is this racism? Because when anyone genuinely claims racism, guess who is reeled in to say, “There is nothing of the sort.” BNP member this use of Black peoples is an institutionally racist practice used by those in power to maintain an unequal status quo, and what happens when the incompetent Black person fails. They might get their legs taken. So who benefits from “tokenism?” Arguably only those in power because they can do as they please to keep people like myself and some others in line and at a distance so we are unable to expose their incompetence in race. This is why I would vociferously argue that this is New Slavery, because the person using the other is a person in POWER.


  12. BiB, please dont stir it up over at inspector gadget. I initially put my name in as BNP member but changed it because i didn’t think that it was suitable. You and everyone else who came over to PC copperfields blog to have a go on the request of blogs like this made it so.

    Ordinarily i would have said balls to it but as the subject is a young man getting his head kicked in for trying to do the right thing i didnt want to muddy the waters. Perhaps i should have posted it without a link back to my blog at all (if you click Gareth thats where you go) I dont know. I wouldnt want to do that because i dont like giving an inch to people who screech “FASSSCIST” when their brains cant take the argument which is what i was facing over at copperfields, but perhaps given the subject i should have out of respect for the guy, i dont know. But its to late now. Ive just checked but i cant delete comments on that blog, only on blogger blogs that allow it, so we will have to live with it.


  13. Brilliant, thanks over at Inspector Gadget 🙂

    I requested that the blog owner delete all comments including and after my comment with the book extract, and i will then post it again but without my name linking back to my blog so there wont be a fall out.


  14. Re: Black in Blue said…
    Serendib, in your exeprience in your career, how many Black officer’s that you know have sold out other Black officer’s for some gain, not finaancial of course?

    04 March, 2007

    Sadly we both know that it is unfortunately a large percentage…..

    The reasons for this are many, but perhaps the main reason is to not be at the negative end of the ‘Persecutors’ actions themselves.


  15. The majority though plod on trying to do their best without highlighting their ethnicity themselves.

    It tends to be the Service that highlights this and attempts to use them in a tokenistic manner to show how Diverse and PC the Service is.

    Another minority of Black officers and staff are actively involved in challenging racism both institutional as well as individual. These people have put their heads above the parapet and strangely enough in the majority of cases they then receive a head wound and in some cases this proves fatal to their career and life within the Service.

    It would possibly be safe to say that the vast majority of Black people that join the Service are at the beginning ‘conservative’ soles by nature and it is as a result of bigotry within and these experiences that cause them to radicalise their ideas.


  16. With regard to affirmative action, well I have not seen or am aware of any success.

    I would sooner see direct Positive Action as we have seen in Northern Ireland where recruitment has be adjusted so that it reflects directly the cultural and religious make up of the people that the Police Service of Northern Ireland serves.

    The skills at present of ALL staff that are of a diverse nature is not fully and positively exploited within the Service or for that matter anywhere else. Without legislation things will not change or if they do it will be at a snails pace.


  17. Dear BNP Member or is it Gareth?

    You mention Islam as if it were a person. Islam as Christianity has never in itself done anything. Whereas we, individuals do things and should not align these actions to ones faith as if this supports what we have done.

    The tenets of Islam, Christianity, Hinduism and Buddhism to mention but a few faiths are universally good. It is ‘Mans’ interpretation of these tenets that has lead to widespread or localised abuses.

    With this in mind is it not best to attack the actions of differing peoples rather than the faith from which they align themselves with.

    The rewriting of a faith has happened throughout time in order to support the actions of a people or individual but this does not make it right.

    Europeans wrongly reinterpreted their faith as perhaps Arab merchants had done to support the heinous trade of slavery. Today the Right Wing Christian movement within the USA as well as here within the UK is doing likewise to condone their unwarranted actions in countries such as Afghanistan and Iraq.

    As for the modern desire to rewrite history, well again this has always happened, but it does sadden me that some from the Right wish to negate the obvious huge impact on the world that Afrikan history has played. This is not only as the birth place and cradle of humanity, but also the fact that Afrikan had a prosperous and thriving civilisation ahead of everyone else.

    What is so wrong that during the reign of the Pharaohs, that some were Black. It would be rather odd if the Pharaohs had not been black for early Egyptian works speak of Red, Brown and Black peoples within Egypt, there was no mention of ‘White’ people.

    When North Western Europeans actually acknowledge that their wealth and prosperity was built upon and further developed on the thoughts ideas and skills of earlier societies which were predominantly non-white then perhaps it might start to develop cohesion between differing peoples.

    I was educated within the British system, and realise that when it came to history I was sadly let down. It is only in my latter life that I have had the resources available to discover alternative opinions (for that is what history tends to be, just an opinion).


  18. I think the part of your last post i most disagree with is the equivalence put upon the different world faiths.

    Just because a group of people follow something doesn’t make it right, and nor does the number. As Stalin said one murder is a crime, one million is a statistic. Well, we are none of us Stalin and should be more universal with our morals.

    Whatever is picked from a religion, it is plain to see that they are different. They embody different ways of acting towards the world, both your brother in the faith and those of other faiths or none.

    No, it is wrong to force religions together. Just because something is a religion does not make it good. Islam is evil. Islamism is the worship of a paedophile who raped the wives of the victims he beheaded. Islamism is the worship of a man who married a six year old and had sex with her when he was over 50.

    Islam is not welcome on these shores. Churchill thought so and i quite concur. We’re better than that.


  19. Dear BNP Member,

    Assalamu-Alaykum. Peace and blessings to you!

    I am sorry that you feel that the opinion of Winston Churchill worthwhile when discussing World Religions Was he not the man who ordered the gassing of the Kurds (before Saddam Hussein) was even alive. Yep, old Winston was a true humanitarian.

    As for Islam, I have to say again its tenets are universally inclusive and stem from a stance of equality of all. Now, I am not saying that these tenets have not been and are corrupted by some, but this would be true of All other faiths as well.

    As for being evil, well you have your right to an opinion, but perhaps less emotive language would be more helpful. Whilst we are on this topic, what faith or religion is welcome on the fair shores of ‘Olde Blighty’ then?

    Just as a side, I am presently reading the Qur’an and I am yet to find all these emotive quotes which some biased individuals claim are anti-this and that. It is rather frustrating as I turn each page waiting to find these heinous gems, but no I find a book with great wisdom albeit in the flowering language of a bygone age which could be interpreted to mean almost anything.

    BNP Member you said ‘Islamism is the worship of a paedophile who raped the wives of the victims he beheaded. Islamism is the worship of a man who married a six year old and had sex with her when he was over 50’. The Qur’an is about the worship of God, the one God that Jew and Christians also believe in is it not, so? are you also saying that these faiths support such abuse of children as well?

    From all my years in the Police, I have actually never been made aware of Muslims being arrested for such acts, but I suppose that as the Service is in perhaps your opinion PC mad we probably let Muslim go? My experience is quite the opposite followers of Islam are given a particularly hard time especially since 2001.

    I will stick to what I originally stated ‘It is ‘Mans’ interpretation of these tenets that has lead to widespread or localised abuses’. Perhaps if truly understand and live by the tenets of their own faiths then they would fear others less. Islam is not to be feared and radicalism is an aspect of ALL faiths and like ALL extremists they are deaf and blind to the commonality between ALL the major world religions and see their own as ‘The True’ calling.

    Of course as a Buddhist, I find this all very puzzling, there again there are some right nutters that call themselves Buddhist as well!

    Perhaps religion is only ‘the opium of the masses’ and those of us that follow a faith are merely deluded? There’s a thought?


  20. Dear BNP Member, I have just perused your Blog and some of the links that you have; I have to say are rather worrying. Where does such venom and hatred come from?

    What have people of colour, Jews, gay individuals, etc ever done to cause such ferocity?

    I as an individual would strangely fight to defend your right to hold such opinions even though the physical expression of such thoughts and ideas would actually put me and my loved ones in physical danger.

    Lets keep the debate going, for there has to be a ‘middle way’ that is acceptable to ALL where people can be respected and allowed to live their lives peacefully alongside others who hail from different backgrounds and hold different political beliefs?


  21. Dear BNP Member, Please respect other faiths in what you say. I don’t want you to use this blog to pursue hatred.

    I think dialogue is important with everyone, but I cannot allow this blog to be used to pursue hatred against Islam.

    You have some very hard line extreme views. We don’t liek terrorism, but who is the terrorist? Or is one as bad as the other?


  22. “What have people of colour, Jews, gay individuals, etc ever done to cause such ferocity?”

    Well i dont know what links your talking about. Often has been the time when i have praised the Jews, methinks you are just fishing!

    I will not respect “other faiths” willy nilly but ive been to Buddhist classes and learned about it on my own time and liked it. (you might like the book i link to at the top of my left hand column called “the way of liberation” by alan w watts, sublime descriptions of zen buddhism) What i think most people need to remember is that some things are good and others bad, and then discriminate between them. If your not prepared to do that, you must find the good in mein kampf just as you do in the quran (and further the same amount of good and bad, or you are admitting that some things are mainly good and other mainly bad so your back at discrimination). What if the nazi’s considered the worship of the fuhrer a faith? surely you would not say that we should respect his followers merely because they belonged to a religion.

    While you may feel duty bound to stand up for islam given your position (and i against it given mine) Given that most religions are instructions for living your life and that religions are different, it stands to reason that some are *at least* better than others, even if you stand back from inferring then that some are good and some are bad. For example, your yourself have chosen to be a Buddhist and not a Scientologist, you see?

    No, some things are good, others are bad, the trick is to find which is which. Islam is the practice and preaching of slaughter or subjugation of the unbeliever. Its chief protagonist, mohammed, beheaded many many people and slept with young girls. The more devout a muslim is the more he tends towards those ideals. As much as well meaning people try to paint all religions with the same brush, i think its fair to say the Amish havnt been at the forefront of beheadings, suicide bombings, flying planes into buildings and so on. No, its islam. Islam islam islam, and all the mandated diversity courses cant hope to change that, all they hope to do is obscure the facts from the victims and keep them muddle headed while more people die.

    No, i will retain my faculties and so should you. Some things are good and some are bad, do not be fooled by the sternly repeated mantra of “you must respect my faith (with an implied ‘or else..’)”

    serendib, do you or did you use to post on the “respect” forum? I had an argument – which i think i won – about Churchill’s actions and the inane situation back then, which enabled him to kill the rebels and be seen as virtuous so long as he didn’t just disperse them with mustard gas as he originally did. If the Ottomans hadn’t joined in with the Germans in killing us, we wouldn’t have been there after we won the war.

    The greatest disservice we did to ‘iraq’ was to take the sunni, shia and kurds and force them together in an artificial country with the aim of getting them to kill each other instead of killing us. divide and conquer. Because we knew back them what we pretend to forget now; different types of people don’t just “rub along”, they fight each other in one way or another because that’s human nature just as it was when we were glorified monkeys and then cavemen. We are omnivores, not herbivores.

    Civilization and a free and fair democracy is not a right its a product of who we were and it can be lost. I heard someone say that the next concentration camps will be set up in the name of ‘human rights’. We shall see.


  23. Dear BNP Member,

    I fear that we will not agree and perhaps never will.

    I pleased that you have shown an interest in Buddhism, but there again Adolf Eichmann had more than a passing interest in Judaism and even spoke Hebrew, so I am not sure of your point.

    I do not see one faith as greater than another, if one by following a faith finds solace and behaves in a humanitarian manner towards ALL sentient beings then what is the issue. One can be an extremely good Buddhist even if one follows Islam, Judaism, and Christianity or for that matter any other faith that supports love and compassion at the core of ALL that they do. Whilst on the topic, I do not see that a cultural group is greater than another either. We all have the same basic requirements to survive and our commonality is way greater than our difference.

    As I keep saying it is not the Faith that is to blame but the application. Faith is not about reading scriptures and reciting mantras and indulging in strange ceremonies but applying the teachings to ones everyday existence. Now, I am no Saint, as I have a bag full of failings that need to be worked on and I would not want a world that reflected my beliefs solely, for I would then be completely blind to the bigotries.

    As for your comment ‘Civilization and a free and fair democracy is not a right its a product of who we were and it can be lost’ sorry, I believe that everyone should be afforded such rights, but this does not mean imposing a Western European quasi-Christian dictatorship.

    As for Human Rights, without such, I am sure that the ‘Blairist’ and others would as soon shut you and your organisation down as it does ignore what I and my peers say. We so easily dismiss Human Rights when it is not ours that are being breached.

    Anyway, I am not going to continue to respond to your Anti-Islamic statement which is the BNP’s latest way of hiding their true beliefs. I am not daft enough to think that once the BNP and other white supremacists organisations have dealt with Muslim’s then it will be the turn of the remainder of us slightly more diverse persons.

    I am happy to engage in looking at ways forward in a positive manner, but I am not going to waste either your time or more importantly my time engaging is verbose xenophobia. Where will it all end?

    I look forward to a more positive vein of thought.


  24. Dear BNP Member,

    I have just been looking at your site and it appears that some of your supporters seem to have not read the overt anti-racist policy that the BNP is meant to be conducting to fool everyone into believing that it is an OK type of party.

    Have you checked out http://blackaganda.blogspot.com/ seems somewhat discriminatory to me.

    Now if the mixed relationship issue interests you or your organisation, it may benefit from reading the works of Franz Fanon (sorry he was Black so inevitably biased, he wrote extensively on both the Colonisation and post Colonisation and how this has effected the Black psyche. Very interesting reading, especially for those interested in personal development and how to break from the historical chains of slavery.


  25. Thats ok, we can leave it at that, it was never likely that either of us would win a convert. Id just like to say that my like of Zen Buddhism is quite sincere. I consider it to be like mental and spiritual Calisthenics.

    And perhaps a little cheekily i might add that i could compare liberal theology on ‘the book of discrimination’ to be the sound of one hand clapping. 🙂


  26. Dear BNP Member,

    I may never be a convert to your ideaolgy but inevitably you will end up following the ‘Middle Path’ but it may just be a few more lifetimes away though (this is from a Buddhist perspective.

    Everyone has the Buddha spirit within them, so its inevitable.

    Your almost a convert, well that is until one looks at your Blog site (dear, dear, as my grandmother would have sad).



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