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Shoot on Sight – Ralph Ineson for Shoot On Sight – SO19

September 27, 2008

Ralph Ineson for Shoot On Sight

The film shoot on sight makes us realise just how difficult the job of a firearms officer is. The question that remains is, in this current climate, when we are looking for terrorists we will be looking mainly for Non White suspects?

The Stockwell incident highlighted just how important it was to get a picture of the wanted terrorist, and that SO19 didn’t have that picture. We owe SO19 officer’s more. Question: So who let SO19 down?

Answers

  1. Blair and the NBPA.
  2. Hayman.
  3. Dick.
  4. The ACPO lead on race and diversity.
  5. The Police Federation.
  6. The Home Office.
  7. The HMIC.

Who let Jean Charles de Menezes down? The same people that let SO19 down, and terrorists.

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25 comments

  1. In fact, everyone except the B.P.A. Thank goodness for that!


  2. OK Dickie even the NBPA. Now what exactly is your point? Because from where I am sitting it doesn’t seem to matter to some people, but hey, we’re just a minority, we should be greatful for the abuse that leads to this sort of thing. We should all keep our mouths shut, and do as all good slaves do.

    I am not paid to be an effecitve police sergeant to shut up and toe the line if that line is wrong. Open your eyes Dickie, will you ever see what we see? (1) Our job was never ever to shoot innocent people. (2) And whilst your son might never come in the firing line of police officer’s as suspects ours stand a greater chance of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. So I guess I can do without thoughtless quips. Please be mindful that this doesn’t turn into what we experienced in the 1970’s and 80’s.


  3. It’s not a thoughtless quip, old boy. It is meant to point out that, in your usual way, you blame every senior officer in the UK (ACPO), HMIC, and the Home Office. Just why my son should be any different to yours when it comes to risks, only you know.

    “Do as all good slaves do”!!!!! The chip on your shoulder is showing now. Neither you nor I have ever seen proper slaves in our lifetime. You’ve simply read about it in the history books.

    ‘Wrong place at the wrong time!’ Wouldn’t have any bearing upon being illegally in a country would it? Or, perhaps, that isn’t worthy of mention.


  4. LET ME ANSWER THIS.

    (1) LEST YOU FORGOT YOUR SON IS WHITE; WE ARE NOT LOOKING FOR WHITE SUSPECTS.

    (2) THIS IS ABOUT ACCOUNTABILITY. ARE HAYMAN AND DICK NOT ACCOUNTABLE?

    (3) I NEVER THOUGHT BEING AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT COULD RESULT IN BEING IN THE WRONG PLACE AT THE WRONG TIME.

    (4) CHIPS – JESUS I HAVE BEEN RACIALLY VERBALLY ABUSED AND ASSAULTED, I THINK I HAVE AN IDEA THAT THIS IS NOT A CHIP. PERHAPS THE LAWRENCE’S HAVE CHIPS, PERHAPS EVERY VICTIM OF HATE HAS CHIPS?


  5. Twiners, it is considered rude to SHOUT.

    1. Quite wrong. There may very, very well be white suspects out there.

    2. All are accountable, as you should know. That is why WE are paying vast amounts on highly paid lawyers, to establish the truth.

    3. No, I believe you. Illegal immigrants do consider themselves to have a right to be here!

    4. Chips? I was, quite obviously, referring to ‘slavery’! You may like to consider that many, many white people are also racially abused and assaulted. The Lawrences? I side with the vast majority of British people when I say that I think this lad’s murder was dreadful – unequivocally. But I also consider the Official Enquiry that followed was an abomination!

    Genuine racialism is also an abomination – whichever way round it goes.


  6. DEAR BOY,

    It’s a free country and I will shout IF I WANT TO.

    1. The majority of terrorism suspects currently are not White. HOW LIKELY STATISTICALLY IS IT FOR YOUR SON TO BE IN THE WRONG PLACE AT THE WRONG TIME? THE POLICE WOULD NOT BE LOOKING FOR HIM OR HIS COLOUR. THAT’S THE DIFFERENCE.

    2. NO, Hayman resigned, he wasn’t pushed out. Dick does not consider herself accountable in my opinion. Amazing how quiet she has become. That sort of Manager deserves little respect in my opinion.

    3. Is it OK to shoot an illegal immigrant?

    4. There may be white victims of race hatred, but the majority of hate victims tend to be Black, and their fate is being murdered, and then subjected to a failed system. That’s the price of being Black. Why do you decry the Macpherson Report?


  7. 1. Correct. That is, as you – a copper – should know, because the vast majority of terrorists are, indeed, coloured. This is not racialism. It is the truth, as plain as plain can be! Unfortunate? Yes, certainly, but factual.

    2. Hayman, Dick, Blair; you seem readily happy to convict all these senior officers simply because you don’t like them. It is somewhat disturbing to find coppers ready to convict without the benefit of a hearing!

    3. It is not acceptable to shoot ANYbody without good cause. Your main grievance, as always, seems to be because the unfortunate man was ‘non’white’! In my strictly limited firearms experience, I always found Firearms Dept Officers to be amongst the very finest people in the Force. (Yes – Force!)

    4. Do some homework, Twiners. You will discover that many white people are also being murdered by persons of a different colour to themselves, only the newspapers are not quite so keen to report these. Why do I decry the MacPherson Report? Because it was the most sinister development in modern British Justice. Many a fine Police Officer was pilloried shamedly at that monstrous farce. So much so, that I believe it to have been like something out of The Inquisition.

    Campaign for Justice, Twiners, and I will support you ALL the way. Campaign for one section of society only – to the obvious detriment of the other side – and I shall stand my ground. Popular, or not!


  8. 1. So ask yourself why your son may never currently be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Why ask me what the difference is, if you know it? So, the chances of your son being caught in a colour issue is not an issue for you. It doesn’t affect you. What about all the innocent Black and Asian kids? That not an issue too? We never caused terrorism. Ask your son how 1960’s the word coloured is?

    Dickie anyone accepts some White people are murdered in this way. Dickie, I think you should do your homework too. The first racial murder was against a Black man I think, this then replicated by many murders against other Black men. Ther perpetrator’s were White. The Black man did not cause this. Look at the figures. How many Black victims? How many White?

    2. The Justice system is flawed against Black people. It is not about me convicti g anyone. It is about who is allowed to get away. How on earth was an Asian male put into a cell with a racist thug in the prion service? For theft from MV he gets murdered? Who was held accountable? How?

    3. Is racial justice not justice in your eyes. Or do you think we have equality?

    4.As I have said clearly this is not about SO19. If you equip a carpenter with poor tools then their job is made difficult.

    5. Hey. don’t make out we are the problem, the problem exists in racism; we don’t ask to be subjected to verbal and physical assaults.

    6. This blog is not about Black power; I have never maintained that at all. This is a campaign for justice. As for the other side, what other side? Are we not one? Are you saying the other side has benefits? Which side has the power?

    Dear Sir, stand your ground, as I shall stand mine, but change your colour and walk in these kids shoes for a month or two and then come back.


  9. Hi Twining,

    Do you think that the vast majority of coppers believe with DickieBo that the ‘vast majority of terrorists are, indeed, coloured’?

    There’s a mealy-mouthed phrase, if ever I heard one. You don’t mean ‘coloured’ now, do you DickieBo? You mean Muslim and, in your eyes, Muslims come in several flavours all of whom are identifiable by their skin tone. This, as a diagnostic tool, can really let you down, as the de Menezes case so richly demonstrates.

    I remember, with fondness now, the days when the main giveaways were heavy brogue accents and a fondness for drinking in Irish clubs. That led to a lot of faulty diagnoses, too, if I recall correctly.

    Ya see, the subset of ‘terrorists that a copper is likely to encounter in the UK in the present year’ is extremely small. That the ‘vast majority’ of this tiny number are likely to be ‘coloured’ does not mean, conversely, that the vast majority of ‘coloured’ people are likely to be terrorists.

    Please, DickieBo, stop using the phrase ‘vast majority’.

    ***

    It is a race issue – my husband is of a non-white skin tone. As with Charles de Menezes, none of his fellow countrymen have ever been arrested in the UK for terrorist activity. He’s stopped wearing his rucksack on the Tube though.


  10. Oh and DickieBo,

    Just interested – where do Brazilians sit in the ‘white – coloured – black’ continuum? What about Peruvians (Shining Path) or Colombians (FARC)? What about people with a heavy suntan (ETA)?


  11. As a White Englishmen I have had the privalege to rarley suffer racial abuse. I’ve suffered it from Black people (male and female) in the USA and in Birmingham and in Barbados when in the company of an attractive Black woman. But I’ve experienced the racism Black people receive at the hands of officals…. I travel abroad a lot – but only when in the company of Black colleages do I (and they) have our boarding cards marked with “s” – so that we are on every occasion subjected to a full search and questioning ..while all the white people travelling in white only groups file past unobstructed. When it happens a few time its coinicidence but it happens 100 per cent of the time. ..its racism!

    Several years ago before I met her my wife (a repectable hard working Black woman who owns her own home etc etc ) was threatened on a bus by a mentally disturbed Black man. He drew a bowie knife blade over her clothed stomach on a crowded bus before leaving – no physical injury. She immediately reported it to the police. Nothng was done. He then threatened her with a knife agin in the street (she does not know this man). She called into the police station and they took a statement. Nothing was done… no feedback on progress … nothing. She knows the answer to the hilarious question posed by the comedian Ali G : “Is it ‘cos I Black?

    As a White person I KNOW the police would have gone out of their way to catch that man if I’d been the victim – due to MY experience. Nw because of the way she was treated – that’s my Wifes exprience of why the Met police deserved Lawrence… as much as they deserved Scarman. The police do this to themselves and then complain when THEY are treated unfairly by the backlash. Having to deal with the fallout of Lawrence if you are a good fair cop is unfair….but hey fes up “life is unfair” and more unfair for some than others. Here is your chance to know what it feels like to be discriminated against on the basis of what you are (cop) rather rthan who you are (fair person). This is a fact of life for all Black people.

    If you are South Asian in appearence and have a beard – – would you dare to wear a rucksck on public transport as White peole can do? NO WAY. It’s obvious then ALL people of South Asian Appeaerence are POTENTIAL terrorists. In the same way that all White men such as my self out with a Black woman are RAPISTS. Yeah right!

    Do Black people have a chip on their shoulder about slavery and racism….many do yes…for a reason – it happened to ALL their ancestors. Do White people have a chip on their shoulder about 7/7 and 9/11 – yes it happened to our people. Racism is a fact of life we have to live with – we are all racist…we all sterotype.

    That is why Twining is right.

    Now – it’s how we deal with this fact of life that tests our mettle as human beings.


  12. http://bentsocietyblog.blogspot.com/2008/09/goodbye-multiculturalism-hello.html

    Debate at above link tries to get to grips with finding how we might face up to truths on both/all sides….. and try to begin to think about how to move forward.


  13. Is there a problem with messages here. I posted 2 over the past couple of days and none arrived.


  14. Ah – I see its working now.

    I just wanted to say that as a White person I’ve witnessed racial prejudice against Black people by police officers.

    My partner (who is Black) had a knife drawn accross her when she was sitting on a bus by a mentally ill Black male. She reported it to the police – and nothing was done…no feedback nothing. Then a few days later the same man (a total stranger to her) pulld a knife again and threatened her incoherently at a bus stop. Again she went in person to the police station. Again – nothing done…no follow-up nothing. I expect he probably used that knife later on on another victim! I know that if I had been the victim rather than a Black woman that the Police would have looked after this situation better and brought it to resolution.

    The police deserved the Lawrence enquiry. As a body they bought it upon themsleves.

    Now all police officers are treated by the rules for what they are (cops) rather than who they might be (good, honest fair people). That is unfair – but then life is unfair. Being treated unfairly for what you are rather than who you are is a daily fact of life for minority ethnic people in a predominantly white society…. NOW THE POLICE JUST NEED TO REALISE THAT THEY ARE “IN THAT RESPECT AT LEAST” walking in Twining’s shoes!


  15. unrelated, but PCSW’s back!


  16. All,

    Have had serious illness in the family,(mum). Sorry, Back soon.

    Twining.


  17. Wench, Robin/dr.;
    You have both raised some very good points, and truthful points. The Lawrence case was a farce, and should have been investigated, and the officers responsible dealt with harshly. I have heard people say that if Steven Lawrence was white, there would have not been such a high profile investigation. However, the point was that if Steven Lawrence was white, then his case would have been handled correctly in the first place and there would not have been a need for an investigation.
    Unfortunately this resulted in a series of policies that are very damaging to policing. Changes needed to be made! Now the balance has gone too far in the opposite direction, and every little thing that gets reported to the police has to be treated as a crime (even if it isn’t). The much needed reforms would certainly have made things more complex for the police, and accountability is a good thing, but the balance has gone too far the other way. Now things like the NCRS have been taken to such an extreme that it has become a hinderance to the job of policing. Now good cops have to suffer because of the bad ones.

    As far as terrorism goes, islamic extremists are (at the moment) the most likely to commit acts of terrorism. However, not all Muslims are terrorists, and not all Muslims are non-white. I hate the use of the term coloured, as it sounds so ignorant (a sort of ‘them and us’ comment), but it does get used a lot by older generations. Like the police, the majority suffer because of the minority.

    Life is not fair, but we all should strive to try and make it more fair.


  18. Twining,

    Hope your mum makes a full and speedy recovery!


  19. You simply show, by your remarks, that you see only what you want to see. (None so blind as they who do not want to see!)

    If you read – and therefore answer – what I said, and not what you like to think I said, “…the vast majority of terrorists are coloured..”

    Are you trying to deny this, simply to further your cause? Do have a look at the mugshots of ALL terrorists convicted in this country in recent years. One thing must be obvious even to you two (Bent Society scribes)…………they are coloured.

    Much as it may disappoint you, it is not racism to say this. It is a fact! Just as most I.R.A. terrorists during the troubles, had Irish accents. Facts. Facts. Facts. And when one denies facts, one is being dishonest.


  20. For most of my service the ‘terrorists’ were the IRA and the threat to humanity was the Cold War.

    I would say that 99.9% of the people stopped for those reasons were white.

    And in 1988 there was a bit of a furore (from some quarters) when the SAS shot dead three unarmed IRA active service unit personnel in Gibraltar.

    It is unfortunate that today’s terrorists tend to look asian or black. In the current climate who is most likely to be stopped?….


  21. Dave at 18, thank you for your kind words…


  22. Just popped in to ask if you were partying tonight, but then saw your comment. All the best to your Mum, mine’s currently in HDU and am stuck several hundred miles away, so I guess we’ll be thinking of eath other.


  23. Twiners. I echo Dave’s sentiments. Take some time out and be with her, if you are able. I shall ask my readers to say a special prayer for her.
    Dickie.


  24. Thank you Dickie, J, Dave, and bent society, I know you are watching this blog entry. Thanks for the kind thoughts, one day I will perhaps write about mum. She is the best.


  25. Echoing everyone else – love to your Mum!



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