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So you want to know how racism impacts?

October 7, 2008

So you want to know how racism impacts? Some time ago I was at a meeting as a BPA official and the Supt in charge with some responsibility for overseeing the investigation of racial crimes stated that Hate Crime Investigators were the lynch pin of this issue. He heralded them as critical in ensuring that “critical” incidents like the murder of Lawrence did not occur to our BME guests.

I then routinely asked if these officer’s were specialist then why they had received no specific training in relation to their role. Their job is to identify trends and make sure something is done to stop issues escalating.  I was duly advised that they did receive training.

The Supt mentioned an initiative with dialogue with the Muslim community. (this initiative was in relation to student officer’s not specialist officer’s.) And this is training, I thought. The Diversity Officer didn’t say a thing.

Funnily enough the minority ethnic members seemed to agree with me. The Supt looked unhappy. I didn’t say anything more then. I followed this up with a report to the Supt highlighting that clearly his interpretation was not correct.

This was weeks ago, to date I have had no reply to my report asking whether these colleagues were proactively picking up trends or were merely reactive, whether these colleagues went into schools where much of the problems arise, or whether they did not. I have asked when was a training needs analysis completed of this role? All this creates the perception that this really is knee jerk.

So you want to know how racism impacts? One of these hate Crime colleagues contacted me and we talked about what I had said at the meeting. Someone somewhere had fed back to these colleagues that I should not have brought this issue into that meeting.

(1) Whoever said this doesn’t have the courage to say this to my face. (2) Since it was the Supt that heralded these colleagues as experts then it is only right that they have some training.  Perhaps I embarrassed the Supt or the Diversity Officer, but the fact is, if what I am saying is correct then this is not my problem.

I certainly do not advocate attending courses for the sake of it, but seeing as FLO’s got specialist training, why not these folk? And if these folk are as critical as the Supt spouts out to BME members why no training needs analysis? (3) Why did whoever said this behind my back not say this to me? On the one had they want us to attend these meetings and on the other when we go, they want us to keep our mouths shut.

I wonder what the Chief of Shireshire would say to this example? And what now should my action be?

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47 comments

  1. At the risk of sounding dumb, I don’t get it. How is this racism and not incompetence, back covering and office politics?


  2. Gaijin – so the Supt and someone else or others in that meeting are incompetent. OK, I agree, and they may be back covering, but why are they demeaning what I have said, if what I have said is to assist and protect my colleagues.

    When you experience this day in day out, what then? They can’t even be honest with some of us. Why? Because it looks like they were quite happy to sell the hate crime role as a specialist role to members of the BME community that attended that meeting. This is misleading BME members.

    The BME community would have left, had they not been challenged, not knowing that they were being mis sold a message. Is that what these meetings are about? Is this how to build trust and confidence?


  3. Twining: please immediately cease using apostrophes for plurals.


  4. Where?


  5. T – How dare you point out the faililngs in others… stand in the cornor and wear this silly hat….. or is that bullying ?


  6. Asking whether those officers were trained or not, in front of third parties may have been better served asked in a closed police meeting, or just as an aside. Asking in the open could be seen as attempting to undermine your Supt.

    Then again you may have already tried this and got nowhere. Is the situation with the hate crime officers exceptional and everything else runs smoothly and everyone is fully trained up?

    Personally speaking I (not a copper) have often been at loggerheads with management, where I wasn’t listened to, or bullshitted or told literally to shut up and/or go forth and multiply. If there was ever a cock-up the finger pointed at us, even though they knew why they’d be a cock-up, because we kept telling them. In fact upper management types would stare in horror in being told everything wasn’t hunky dory, and then disappear, doing nothing.

    These things aren’t right, and I’m not saying you’re wrong in saying it’s racially motivated, you are there, I am not. I am not saying just accept it, all I am saying is, people don’t have to be racist to be poor managers/complete numpties. There is a reason why terms like SNAFU and FUBAR exist.


  7. Gaijin point taken – I have had dealings with this, what is a FUBAR, before. And previous dealings were as bad. So why put people like this in charge of an important matter? The point here is I am assuming someone who was at the meeting decided to undermine me in my absence. I don’t know whether it was the Supt, the Diversity Officer or one Hate Crime colleague. I have seen the Diversity Officer since and they have not said anything.

    If what I am saying is right, as in I raised a valid point, why would they have to do that? I have to face these people again and again and again. THEY HAVE THE AGENDA NOT US.

    THE THING IS THE CHIEF WON’T KNOW THIS IS HOW WE ARE TREATED. THE CHIEF, HE/SHE, MAY NOT EVEN BELIEVE IS WHEN WE SAY THIS HAPPENS. Is it any wonder that Black people have no truust in us?


  8. fubar – f**ked up beyond all recognition

    putting the wrong people in charge:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle

    sometimes people may be good, and then put into a particular role, are terrible.

    There is a book:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Psychology-Military-Incompetence-Norman-Dixon/dp/0708814824

    which I found quite good on related areas.


  9. I may be naive or perhaps I just don’t understand (and I mean that literally, it’s not sarcasm) but surely the Hate Crime Units and Community Safety Units and whatever else happens to be in vogue are simply fashionable words for saying what the police are there to do – prevent crime, detect and apprehend offenders. I understand that there are some areas of investigation requiring specialist training (serious sexual offences, fraud etc) but a theft is a theft is a theft: surely hate crime is simply an ordinary crime with a vile motivation attached.

    It is obviously important to reassure the community that something is being done – but shouldn’t that be the whole community, not just sections of it? Just because I am white doesn’t mean I shouldn’t engage with the police to prevent racist crime: indeed, I would be angry if I were to be excluded from community engagement because I am unlikely to be victimised because of my colour.

    Perhaps certain types of investigation might require some extra knowledge, but I suspect that this would often amount to no more than an appreciation of the victim’s culture – which is what an effective police service should be doing as a matter of course. I’d be willing to bet that if I spoke with an officer who had worked for a while in an area with an active Jewish/Muslim/gay/whatever community, he/she would have a working knowledge of the culture – what offends, general customs etc. Rather than seeing a Hate Crime Unit with special training in heaven knows what, I’d like to see a return to proper investigative training, proper CID courses (not some silly local job run by some has-beens who like a 9-5 lifestyle) and a general improvement in crime investigation and prosecution.

    Surely it’s time to recognise that discrimination (in its strictest sense) will never go away while any section of the community is treated differently. We all suffer from crime. We must all work to fight it. Creating specialist units is often little more than soundbites designed to cover up the real problem – lack of investigative ability or the will to use it.


  10. hey Twining, I think I’ll have to disagree and say that this sounds more like incompetent arse covering than racism. I’ve been to neighbourhood meetings (back home not through work) where I know the Police representative (Ch.Insp) was trying to sell the bullshit to the assembled audience about new ‘specially trained’ officers setting up a proactive squad to deal with a spate of arsonists/twocers. Having quite a few mates in my local nick I new this new proactive unit was being sourced directly from response teams and that no one was receiving surveillance or extra pursuit courses and I challenged the CI about the ‘specially trained’ aspect. It didn’t go down well and he skirted the subject – as usual. Sounds to me you had a senior officer who thought his audience wouldn’t question the usual bullshit rhetoric, the fact that they were BME officers doesn’t make it racist, just usual job bullshit.

    By the way, just put in a link from mine, I’ll have a read of your older stuff a bit later on!


  11. Ginger if hate crime was hate crime and our prejudices do not come in to play we would have caught and prosecuted Lawrence’s killers. Also if prejudices were not so shook up Mubarak would not have been placed in a cell with a racist thug. This is about getting inside before it gets worse, about pushing schools into action to prevent race hate getting bad, about prosecuting where the CPS don’t want to prosecute, it is about challenging boundaries.

    Metcountymounty hello – I could be wrong. The problem is it wasn’t just the Senior Officer, it was the diversity officer too. My intervention was about race and making the service better, but they didn’t want that. They wanted to sell a misinformed picture to make them look good. Cover up’s don’t build trust. Incompetence and cover ups were a feature of Macpherson. Alleged collusion, another feature. What about misleading the BME community? Where have we heard that one before?

    And if we can deliver better, why are they telling untruths? These are handpicked people that are supposed to be protecting us. Racism has moved on, I think it includes cover ups, incompetence, like this.


  12. Twining,

    ” if hate crime was hate crime and our prejudices do not come in to play we would have caught and prosecuted Lawrence’s killers.”

    I take great offence to that statement,

    ** I want to type more in reply but I cant stop wanting to scream


  13. OK, didn’t mean to cause offence. I don’t have the energy anymore. Investigating rape is a specialist matter, so is investigating race hate. We train rape investigators, but not hate crime officer’s. Why?

    Both crimes are violations. and both can lead to murder. Would it be any good to have those that are involved in domestic abuse investigating rapes? Do you think those who were in charge of the Lawrence investigation would take offence?

    I could take offence at the people that treat me bad, and I do, but we have to endure this incompetence regularly. Equally, if you know me through my writings then please don’t take offence; at least you have the courage to speak. Have you stopped screaming yet?


  14. Twining, we CAN deliver better, the problem is it’s easier for them to try and blag everyone not just ethnic minorities. Just as an aside from the MacPherson report, there wasn’t an actual identified instance of racism in the investigation, that’s why he came up with the moniker of ‘institutional racism’ as it seemed like there must be.

    There was in fact more evidence of the initial investigation being steered by a corrupt officer (as later investigated by panorama) as he knew the father of one of the main suspects and who now lives in spain. I’ve absolutely no doubt that racism has been prevalent in the Police just like EVERY other employer in the UK, Macpherson was before my time but as soon as I joined I was labelled a racist purely by my job by people who didn’t have a clue. Having worked with people in several other companies and organisations who were racist/sexist/homophobic and were not ashamed to admit it, if anyone were to launch an investigation into any company big enough you’d be peeling back a can of worms.

    Incompetence and a willingness to try and make it look like you’ve done something as opposed to actually doing it and putting your head above the parapet and risking it being shot off by failing is the way of the SMT.

    I’ve got no problem with trying something and failing, they can’t bust me back anywhere but in this day and age I’ve no doubt it’s more to do with incompetence and fear of failing than racism. If anyone is stupid and bigoted enough to discriminate against someone because of their race then they deserve everything they get, but conversely I’ve known a few officers and PCSO’s who have just been shit at their job and pulled the race card when they’ve been criticised or pulled up on errors. I’ve walked in on conversations with some BME officers trying to convince others to pull the card to get courses or to do a skippers legs because they had the temerity to criticise them.

    Members of my immediate family are BME and I’ve experienced racism so it’s not as if I don’t know what some people have gone through, I just think that too many people have played the card to cover up their own failings and it makes things harder for everyone, especially those unfortunate to actually be discriminated against.


  15. “Twining, we CAN deliver better, the problem is it’s easier for them to try and blag everyone not just ethnic minorities.”

    MCM – When people like the people I mention here STOP trying to fool the BME community, AND STOP TREATING US LIKE IDIOTS then we WILL BE DOING OUR JOB. I fully agree. THEIR BEHAVIOUR IS NOT LIKED BY MOST OF US.

    “There was in fact more evidence of the initial investigation being steered by a corrupt officer (as later investigated by panorama) as he knew the father of one of the main suspects and who now lives in spain.”

    I agree.

    “I’ve absolutely no doubt that racism has been prevalent in the Police just like EVERY other employer in the UK, Macpherson was before my time but as soon as I joined I was labelled a racist purely by my job by people who didn’t have a clue.”

    I agree. these people, our SMT’s, didnt have a clue.

    “Incompetence and a willingness to try and make it look like you’ve done something as opposed to actually doing it and putting your head above the parapet and risking it being shot off by failing is the way of the SMT.”

    Now that’s corruption.

    I’ve got no problem with trying something and failing, they can’t bust me back anywhere but in this day and age I’ve no doubt it’s more to do with incompetence and fear of failing than racism. If anyone is stupid and bigoted enough to discriminate against someone because of their race then they deserve everything they get, but conversely I’ve known a few officers and PCSO’s who have just been shit at their job and pulled the race card when they’ve been criticised or pulled up on errors. I’ve walked in on conversations with some BME officers trying to convince others to pull the card to get courses or to do a skippers legs because they had the temerity to criticise them.”

    It’s a shame if some BME colleagues are doing this.


  16. All tea is the same just a different colour

    A view from the shaded side of the valley. Being in the shadows everything I see is a generalisation. Before the race mixing machine was turned on to high speed this country was 99.99% white. Steady now wait for it. So when the skies were clear everything looked the same but now things are clouded and we are dominated by rainbows things are a little more confusing and unclear.

    If you take the brain, its thoughts and processes combined with vastly varying amounts of knowledge add them all up and imagine the sum as a machine. The machines output varies continually according to what raw materials are input.

    When ancient Brits lived in isolated communities those who were members all had the same input to their brain machines but the nearest community over the next hill might have completely differing inputs and if the two tribes met the resulting incomprehension of each others looks and the lack of intelligent inputs to the brain machines led to the common denominator of under resourced primitive brain machines and that of course was war.

    Take recent history and you see we are still fighting the next tribe for resources but the tribes have grown exponentially in size and each one has its common brain machine inputs, the surrounding environment, traditions and totally useless leaders.

    If you look at yourself and your tribe in a mirror and see a blank piece of A4 paper and put in on your desk and do this for years on end. While every now and again someone else puts a tiny dot from a well sharpened pencil point onto your piling up pieces of A4, you may or may not notice and get used to the possibility of a pin prick of pencil lead here and there.

    Now if some one comes along with a fat tipped felt tip pen and puts dots all over the place, you check your mirror to see if it needs cleaning or wonder if you have contracted a rash of some sort.

    This is simply because it stands out so blindingly obvious as not a clear sheet of A4. Take any tribe of any size and examine it with a magnifying glass and you will soon find the tribe is not one homogenous mix of the same but there are little fires erupting and burning out continuously.

    It the same with all tribes, there are variations in the workings of the brain machine everywhere as the inputs cannot be quality controlled to perfect symmetry due to thousands of outside influences.

    Again study the building bricks of all the tribes in existence and you soon see they have remarkable similarities and identical pieces too. So much so you could easily transpose bits between tribes.

    Of course some pieces are quite different and if swapped with each other can easily upset the balance of a tribe leading to more flare ups of those tine little fires you viewed earlier.

    If the tribes over time learn that the brain machines will run with common inputs from other areas of the lands then they may realise they can trade with each other instead of warring with the advantage of a greater rewards than the results of battle.

    Obviously everything has to be done in a controlled and fair way to keep everyone happy and at a speed that does not take the brain machine by surprise and overload its capabilities which may vary at random throughout the tribes. Great understanding is needed. Understanding by all takes a lot of education of the individual brain machines. If it isn’t monitored continually then flare-ups will occur where mismatches appear or the machines are not programmed to deal with perceived fairness.

    So a flare up can be when your immediate neighbour within the tribe has been given preference over you without you realising the facts behind the decisions. Just a little heat nothing to worry about really but when the machines are needed to assemble for special tasks into bigger combined machines then imbalances of the all important inputs can lead to bigger flare ups.

    The more obvious the different machine is and can be identified by what it looks like or how it behaves then the easier it is to hang a label on so as to spot when you come across another one or situation that could lead to perceived unfairness of a given situation.

    Take any event carried out by two simple or complex brain machines from the simplest task to the most complex task imaginable and you can see that any part of any tribe where interchanged or acting within there home tribe can lead to conflict of thought or action intended or unintended.

    So when the society get more complex and resources for the input of the brain machines gets harder to obtain then one has to learn quickly how to identify each and every component of the life system and hang a label of convenience on it for ones own benefit and if you are social for your friends too.

    Sparking off at the sight of a warning label for the wrong reasons due to lack of education of the brain machine can seriously damage its functions and uses to the rest of its tribe. A bit of evolution creeping in with survival of the better educated brain machines.

    If the labels are harder to see and determine their warnings then someone might suggest some training in what to look for or those without training will most likely make blanket decisions and tar all sorts of machines with the same wrong label leading to anarchy within the tribe.

    If you are unfortunate to paint all existing machines with say four basic colours instead of leaving them the same but with a specification plaques attached denoting the differences then the uneducated machines will easily make big mistakes with the colour codes compared to what they might do if they were educated enough to read the individual specification labels before carrying out tribal tasks to the benefit of all including themselves.

    My argument is don’t make the mistake of not reading the label when the brain machine opposite you turns out only to be one of the lesser, colour recognition models, awaiting an upgrade. Too much of the same colour will easily confuse it into irrational behaviour, flare-ups are not the answer but upgrading its intelligence levels are and is best achieved by example a little milk and not too much sugar.


  17. Incorrect apostrophe usage thus far:

    I then routinely asked if these officer’s were specialist.

    This initiative was in relation to student officer’s not specialist officer’s.

    Cover up’s don’t build trust.

    We train rape investigators, but not hate crime officer’s.

    These people, our SMT’s, didnt have a clue.

    I have read your post several times, and I cannot see where on earth you are seeing racism in this.

    You have raised an important and fair point with someone high up, they couldn’t answer it (because they’re talking bollocks) and are pissed off because someone had the audacity to (rightly) question them and show them up in public.

    This happens all the time in all walks of life – just because you happen to be black and the meeting was about ethnic minority matters, it does not make it racist.


  18. I’ve read it again (again); from your title, are you insinuating that racism was the reason that this management type got pissed of at you asking awkward questions? Or are you saying it’s racist that proper training hasn’t been given to officers (note the lack of apostrophe) dealing with these issues? Or do you think you were singled out for criticism because you are black?

    I am really struggling here!

    Look mate, I am white, male, hetro etc, and I worked in a very white, male, hetro etc environment – and – wait for it: This sort of thing happened to me all the time! They don’t like it when you call them out and point out the flaws in the self-serving nonsense they spout.


  19. “It’s a shame if some BME colleagues are doing this.”

    is that the extent of your reaction to this Twining?
    a touch on the mild side isn’t it ?

    I suggest it warrants the same level of indignation and concern as to your reaction at what was said and done in the original meeting you attended.


  20. What you describe has all the hallmarks of an arse-coverer.

    I wasn’t there so can’t say with any authority “on the ground”, but i believe paranoia and arse-covering are rampant in forces up and down the country, not racism.

    Does it exist? Absolutely. Are people less racist than ever now? Undoubtedly.


  21. Twining – you’ll find no disagreement from me when you say that boundaries need to be pushed etc, nor when you describe the need to prevent the crimes. What I’m saying is that if someone is assaulted for racial reasons, what extra training do the officers need because of the victim’s ethnicity? There are very specific training needs for officers investigating rape, or offences against children, but these are to do with best evidence gathering, not ethnicity.

    As for the reference to the Stephen Lawrence murder – yes it was a racist murder. Yes, there were major blunders made. There may even have been corruption. But can anyone honestly show that it would have been any different had the murder not been a racist one? I remember Michael Mansfield (gun for hire) accusing the first officer on the scene of “not wanting to get a black man’s blood on him”. This officer was off-duty, driving home with his wife having been to a prayer meeting, saw Stephen lying on the pavement and stopped to help. He and his wife rendered first aid and called the ambulance. Their thanks – to be called racists who didn’t want to dirty themselves with a black man’s blood.

    I wasn’t on the enquiry, but I served with many of the officers who were. Some were excellent detectives; others were a waste of space. But some of the senior officers were very, very good and didn’t deserve the opprobrium heaped on them. I’m talking about people like Ian Crampton and Brian Weeden. Are they capable of mistakes? Of course they are. Are they racist? Not on your life.

    There is an awful lot of rubbish spoken about the investigation: about how warrants should have obtained striaghtaway, about prosecuting the killers earlier etc etc etc. It’s all with the benefit of hindsight and, frankly, has nothing to do with racism.

    Just as an aside, Macpherson labelled the police as ‘institutionally racist’. I still don’t know what that means and, interestingly, the main players in health and education came out and said that if judged by the same loose and inexact criteria, their own industries could be similarly labelled. And just to make sure, Macpherson also said that anyone who denied that the police was racist could only be saying so because they were themselves racist, thereby making it impossible to discuss or explore the matter further.

    And what good has actually come of the circus that was the public enquiry? Michael Mansfield made a ton of money (nothing he did was pro bono) and reinforced his reputation of being anti-establishment (which is why he took the job); Mr & Mrs Lawrence have still lost their son; no-one has been successfully prosecuted – in fact, the actions of the press have ensured that the murderers couldn’t possibly get a fair trial. Cheers, Daily Mail. Thanks a bunch.

    And have any other murders been prevented? Is the black community any safer? Do they feel any safer? What about the whole community? Do minority groups trust the police any more or less?

    I don’t know the answers to any of these questions, but I do know that what could have been a magnet to draw the community together against racism ended up fragmenting it due to vested interests and other agendas.


  22. Hibbo – “This happens all the time in all walks of life – just because you happen to be black and the meeting was about ethnic minority matters, it does not make it racist.”

    This happens to Black people. The Lawrences’ were advisied all the time that they were wrong.
    What gives them the right to talk utter tripe to Black people? Hibbo – a Black person that does not challenge is not singled out, but a Black person that does, is.

    Binary Surfer – noted. But they think they can get away with it, and they do

    Clever Trevor – give me a break.


  23. Ginger, all along the way the Lawrence’s appear to have been treated poorly by some.

    Is this how we treat genuine victims?

    Warrants? These lads could have been arrested earlier.

    Why were they given the opportunity to discard forensic evidence, if indeed they were guilty?

    The term institutional racism was about many many things.

    It wasn’t just about the police, it was about how society treats Black people who are marginalised by poverty or race.

    There were big blunders.

    There was alleged corruption.

    There was the lack of understanding of why this family might need support bearing in mind their child was murdered by racist thugs, and there was the issue of a lack of intelligence when the crime involved race hate.

    These are some aspects of how we might treat people who are different.

    Thereafter, it was perceived that we covered up our mistakes suggesting we weren’t telling the truth. Covering up things creates this perception.

    Er…..


  24. “…this is about getting inside before it gets worse…”

    I well remember having to attend ‘racial awareness’ talks way back in the 60’s. We are no further forward now than we were then. 40 YEARS ON! Before you all start shouting – we’re not!! You simply talk more about it, use it to suit one’s own ends, and by golly, it provides a veritable array of well-paid jobs for the boys – whoever they may be!

    There will always be racial discrimination, just as surely as there will always be discrimination against homosexuals/Arsenal/Ginger-haired people/Taffs/Paddies/Gypsies/ and whatever else you care to mention. The point is; what is acceptable and what is not? My view is ‘Sticks and stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me.’ It is when matters are taken further that we should be concerned. And this, IMHO, is where we are all going wrong now, and the main villains – again IMHO – are people like the B.P.A., and Race Relations Council, etc., who try very hard to demonise decent people, at the slightest excuse. THEY surely set back genuine attempts to improve relations.


  25. Dickie – I mean – get to the problem before it escalates to something more serious. So, let’s try and take out the Lawrence murderers before they murder. I am not demonising anyone, aren’t these managers who undermined valid points the ones demonising us?


  26. ” a Black person that does not challenge is not singled out, but a Black person that does, is.”

    Twining – you are either missing the point or being deliberately facetious. Let me rewrite your statement: “a PERSON that does not challenge is not singled out, but a PERSON that does, is”

    I am not saying that their is no racism in society or the police, but by trying to make things like this in to a racist situation simply demeans the real issues and makes you look foolish.


  27. Twining – yes, the Lawrences may well have been treated shabbily. Yes, mistakes were made. Yes, the murderers could have been arrested earlier (although there was apparently no evidence and had they done so, the enquiry would have slated the investigating officers for moving too hastily and not building a case against them). I would caution, however, that whilst there was information and intelligence identifying the suspects, evidence was in short supply.

    What I am saying is that firstly, I don’t for a moment believe that race or racism played any part in the investigation (although I have no doubt that the murder itself was racist). Secondly, I’ve heard nothing to suggest that some form of hate crime training (whatever that might be) might have helped. Murder is murder. This had racism at its heart but was still a murder and should have been investigated in the normal way.

    What saddens me most of all is your use of the word ‘us’. Like ‘them’, this is a word that excludes rather than includes. To me, ‘us’ is the community. Perhaps that might mean the part of the community that wants to live together in peace, regulated by laws which are implemented by police.


  28. Hibbo I don’t have the energy to use the f word, so I am not being f at all. Maybe I have missed your point. None of the WHITE PEOPLE PRESENT CHALLENGED THIS MISLEADING OF THE COMMUNITY, “IT’S A SPECIALIST AREA, BUT WE DON’T GIVE THEM SPECIALIST TRAINING,” OR, ” WE DO BUT IT’S FOR STUDENT OFFICER’S, NOT THESE OFFICER’S.”

    THIS WAS BLATENT MISLEADING BY PEOPLE WHO SHOULD HAVE A REAL INTEREST IN THIS AREA.

    MY POINT IS, WHY MISLEAD THE BLACK COMMUNITY?


  29. I’m a black officer and Im getting really picked on at work by my Insp for doing things that I see loads of other ppl doing all the time. But I really dont want to fall into the trap of saying “Well, I can’t explain why, so it much be racisim”. We are police officers for christ sake, dont we need real evidence first.


  30. “must” not “much”


  31. YEP, WE ARE.


  32. Or dear oh dear Twining, you really do appear to be blaming everything on racism.

    The Supt and ‘diversity officer’ dream up some useless soundbite friendly scheme, you show them up for it, they don’t like it. Hey presto – you’re black, so it must be racism! Not incompetence, not self-serving media chasing, no, RACISM!


  33. Hibbo, why mislead the Black community? Is it right and proper to do so? As for hate crime training, perhaps I will write in my next post what I think it might entail. Hibbo at 26 – in what way do you think racism exists in the police service? Verbal comments have gone out of the window, so we don’t hear those, so in what way does it exist? Race evolves, people evolve in the way they deal with things, and abuse evolves.


  34. Twining, stop breaking into ALL CAPITALS, it is acknowledged throughout the Internet world that typing in all capitals is the equivalent of shouting out aloud and is a very rude way to carry on a conversation.

    As I stated in my earlier post if you analyse the ‘actions’ of people perceived to be racist then you will notice these same ‘actions’ are committed by virtually every living human on the planet against their immediate relations and across the board to all other members of the community.

    Take any negative action towards anybody and you can render it down to a simple disagreement in one’s point of view on any particular subject. For instance take the hatred between people of differing political persuasions or gang members in cities who are of the same birth place and colour.

    These groups or individuals will offend each other from the least minor of extremes to the worst, that of murder. It happens on the African continent between people of the same colour just as it does any where else in the world. They will chop each other to pieces yet they are of the same race and colour.

    These disagreements of so called “racial” types can be taken aside and on questioning the opposing views, the same results appear for each. In other words if the two sides were to “argue” the point, that is discuss it, they would soon see that if you extracted the colour element and put it far aside then both parties are the same and only differ on some opinion.

    They can agree to disagree, or discuss the point, with the intention of persuading the other party that their view point is the correct one. Only each, is only armed with whatever factual knowledge they have gained on any subject under the sun.

    The wiser and more educated, has a better chance of winning the argument or changing their opponents view on a subject. If you change your view on a subject it is because you have learned new facts and have altered your view of the world to accommodate your further education.

    If people are angry and upset due to, a narrow blinkered outlook, based on a lack of education by natural absorption from their surrounding environment, or that which is deliberately taught to them, then they are far more likely to make complete utter fools of themselves, by reacting to others, of a very general on the surface appearance, to others being different to themselves in their view of the world.

    To be accepting yourself as a victim of racism is to be a hypocrite because you ignore the fact of what is happening in the brain processes of that very person you say is equal to you or that person who says he is above you in some way or another. You are only a victim of the “stupidity” by others who hate what you represent to them because they lack the available facts.

    People behave in a very primitive almost stone aged fashion when not engaging their brain, and that is more common with a lack of accepting there are facts in this world as well as group beliefs that are blatantly not based on fact but more akin to brain washing for control purposes by others

    A policeman is a policeman first and of course a human the same as any other mop. There seems to be hundreds of police blogs all talking about their job but I’ve only ever come across one that puts colour first, then themselves second and the Police third. It just shouts out the inability to accept all races harbour their fair share of the ultimately stupid. So stupid they tar all, with the same brush. Racism is no different to football violence or tribal warfare involving machetes, those involved are just a little behind in the evolution stakes.

    If you think you perceive racism then you acknowledge you are above it but if you react to it in a similar fashion you reflect the same lack of intelligence that the offender is desperately short of. If you could take them aside and ask exactly what they find so upsetting, and if you are better than them, you will be able to enlighten them to their lack of knowledge and understanding, and how their own stupidity will only harm themselves in the long run if they continue to behave in a sub human fashion.

    You cannot legislate against so called ‘racism’ or stupid ignorance, you can only educate it away. There is no reason the whole world cannot get on with each other, except if you let others brainwash and starve their own of education to facts, but not the fiction of religion.

    Dust your shoulders off and set the example that will make you the person to follow as a shining example of understanding, knowledge and leadership. That takes a huge amount of “tact” which is a little known old English trait, sadly dying out in this world.


  35. Why differentiate between sections of the community? If a section of the community is being misled, it is for the whole community to challenge it.

    Perhaps if we concentrate less on our differences and more on our commonalities it might get us somewhere.


  36. You effingt faggot!!!


  37. OK then. Sticking with the title of the thread, perhaps the more intransigent members of the BPA would like to know how racism impacts on those of us who are not from BMEs.

    Every time stupid and intemperate comments are made – such as in the article quoted at #36, or by the boycott in the Met section – non-BME people are angered. Angered that the race card is used. Angered that incompetent people (e.g. Ghaffur), corrupt people (e.g. Dizaei) and those who want to work by their own rules (e.g. Bailey) are being hailed as martyrs to the cause and given a wide berth for fear of the race card being played again.

    The self-serving stirrers among you need to learn that you are setting back race relations decades. People aren’t stupid and they understand that racism isn’t just BMEs being disadvantaged. Racism is a two-way street. Please, please – would the sensible majority of the BPA regain control of this issue and stop your cause and your organisation being hijacked. I fear the alternative will be marginalisation of both the BPA and BMEs in practice, if not in stated policy. That would be bad for everyone.

    Newsflash – racism is bad, no matter which way it works.


  38. Hi folks

    On our blog site “Bent Society” ther is a post on this issue – here:

    http://bentsocietyblog.blogspot.com/2008/10/we-have-racist-police-service-claims.html

    The post claims that perhaps things are not quite so Black and White as either side seek to make out.


  39. Why not come out and say it.

    Do you like people who are not of your ethnicity?


  40. I am afraid there are some trolls about. I have to say this is not metcountymounty.


  41. When you stop bleating on about equality, do you and Whichendbites get together?

    Do you both put peanut butter on your dicks and close your eyes when his dog…………..


  42. I am the dog of Thisendbites

    He and Metcounty come to me and put peanut butter on their “truncheons” and then close their eyes when I ………


  43. Here we go.


  44. Do us all a favour, trolls, and trot along home while the grown-ups discuss real problems sensibly.

    For the avoidance of doubt, my view is that this is a very sensible blog, run for the right reasons, and personal insults directed at Twining (or anyone else, for that matter) are both unhelpful and plain wrong. Just because we don’t all agree all the time is no reason to doubt this.

    Twining – keep up the good work and don’t be deflected or deterred by the morons.


  45. Oh, and I am still awaiting a response, any response, from the Supt and other “coverers” in this!


  46. nice info



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